It's tough isn't it? In one respect, we can find comfort and pride in the fact that we are trailblazers. We are literally paving the way, if I may be so trite, for the rest of the world to follow, and it will follow...

It's so sad that so many view their lives with such limited possibility and exposure. I worked in a huge redevelopment project not too long ago in Chicago where I met on a regular basis, people who'd never left a 10 block radius...in the entire lives. So unfortunate, yet that in mind, it's not so difficult to see how people conditions and circumstances can affect their judgements of others.

Do you consider yourself a third culture kid, as you've grown up in, perhaps, a very confusing world?

Check your private messages, by the way.

Well I am not in a multi-cultural relationship but I guess you can see the word "relationship" in many ways.

I grew up in a small town (population of 2500 more or less), and the people there were very ehm "outspoken" (read: narrow-minded) on the multi-cultural thing. The Netherlands is a multi-cultural society with people from Marocco ,Turkey, Greece, Bosnia, Russia, China, Poland, etc. You would think that in such a country there would be no problems or prejudice against each other, but the opposite is true; we judge each other more than anything else.

For example, if a "coloured" person would walk by, they would whisper "there's that black kid again".

I have never understood why people are so close minded when it comes to accepting another HUMAN BEING. We put each other in squares, dividing us by race, beliefs, or whatever man can think of.
What bothers me the most is the generalisation that most people use: "Oh a kid from Turkey stole something from the supermarket? They are all thieves, stay away from them."

In kindergarten, people used to tease me because of my skin colour. Why? Because my skin was TOO WHITE. I have this milky white skin, and some people obviously didn't like it so they started picking on me. Do you get it? I still don't.

I remember when I was in high school, we had this guy in our class called Mohammed. Mohammed was originally from Marocco but he had lived all his life here in The Netherlands. He was the most smart guy in our class, and he was one of the most respectful human beings I've ever met.

You see, I have never had any eye caps on. A human being is someone just like you, regardless of their skin color or beliefs

Hi Everyone! It was so great to read what everyone had to say about the topic...It took me a while to think about what to say, but I finally did.

I have been in several multi-cultural relationships before. Some of my best friends are a different race than me.
Desabian was one of the most popular guys in our grade and we had art together. We started becoming really good friends. Then things got weird...I would be walking down the hall and someone would come up to me and say "What makes you think that YOU can be friends with Desabian?" "There goes that white girl" "There goes that whigger" "Since when do you like black guys?" and many more crude things. I just brushed it off cause I didn't care what people thought of me and my friends. I won't let what people say affect the way I feel towards someone. Desabian, on the other hand took it badly. He was being harrassed about our friendship as well.
My friend Shaniqua would be called things like "oreo" when it got around that me and her had become friends. We didn't even listen when people would say such things.
Although so many hateful things were said, that was nearly 4 years ago and we're still great friends...Sometimes people still say things about us but I think that they got the idea that no matter what they said, we weren't gonna give into it and end something great.
A lot of my friends are of mixed races/cultures too. It really bothers me that people make fun of them too. People will see my white/hispanic friend Holly and treat her like she's betrayed one race for not being apart of their lil group. Or my black/white friend Alura being treated like she has to choose between one race or the other, and then being thought of as that race when she's "chosen." Things are still so segregated...Especially in schools it would seem.
I've been in a lot of relationships where people would ask "Why do you have out with HER?" but I know that the people who say these things don't really know me. They don't try to look behind the physical. When I go to the mall with one of my "different" friends, people staring and giving us looks don't see happy people, they see what's different. People can be so narrow-minded sometimes.
Everyone is beautiful in their own way. Expecting people to be, act, or look just like you would be incredibly boring, yet some people only accept people that are "just like them." It's much more fun and interesting to be different/diverse. And if people are happy...Let them be happy!

Much Love,
Kristina

We were helping mom move in her house today, and my nephew came to help us. He is dating a girl whose father is pakistani. She has a child by another man, but that does'nt bother my nephew a bit. He really likes her and it could be serious. The thing is he took her to meet the family, my husband's mother and father...and he left her with them while he went on a fire call(he is a fireman). She felt out of place while he was gone and uncomfortable. Now she is not so sure about a relationship with him...hmmm. I told him that she would never feel that way with us. He also knows I will love whomever he loves. (that's my rule with all the nieces and nephews) I hope it works out for them. I love my nephew very much. Love, Janet

up in here we agree that people r different but they r all humans after all and deserve to be judged by their acts but not by the way they look like. We all agree on that but one thing is bothering me - why there r so much more who can't see beyond the limited nature of their kind? What we can do about it... what u do about it in ur everyday life? And after all that was said by now, and after the well known advice "don't care about what people will think" i want to say: I DO CARE what they will think and tell me, and i do care because first (u will all agree with me now) - it's wrong to become an outsider just cos u'r too white or too black or too turkish. I believe the racism stops the progres,cos as u said "narrow minded people" can't give u an open minded ideas... hate creates wars.. so yeah i do care and i will fight for explaining and showing why it's wrong (i don't want to show u, cos i know u'r behind me on this)... i know lot of people won't listen, but i think children will.. lets start with them, teach ur own kid to respect people for what they give u but not for where they r born - that's not a choice, but it's a choice to become a hater or a lover.

I am sitting here and am on the edge of tears. I need to speak, to share, to bare a part of me that's hurting deeply and asking a zillion questions. Something Marci said hit me....

quote:

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that its all about love not
"something different "

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How very very true that statement is. Having said that, here is what's on my heart. . . .

Ever since my husband and I got married we have discussed adoption. We have discussed everything from adopting a child from Africa and the Philippines to adopting from Russia to adopting from the states and anywhere inbetween.

The man I married almost 4 years ago was open minded and open hearted, I knew him then and I loved him for many many reasons, one of them being that he was so open to many things and generally didn't care what other people said or thought. I still love him but he's not the same open minded or open hearted man I grew to love so long ago when we met.

He is not very close with his family. His mom never paid him any mind until he did something she couldn't stand like joining the military and marrying me. On the occasions he does something that she can't stand, (which is most of the time) he never hears the end of it. Now him and his mom are talking more and more and she is very prejudiced and racist. She is one of those people that for the most part she can't stand people who don't think, look, or act like she does. . . . I want to beat her over the head and slap her sometimes for how she is and what comes out of her mouth.

It's all well and good that he is trying to mend ties with his own family but to be honest, he's letting their views and beliefs influence him in a real bad way. His mom can't stand me and he even admits it.

The thing is, this started early last year a couple days before his mom came to visit us. Knowing that she doesn't like me, I respected her and her time with her son she hadnt seen in over 3 years. They were going to go out to dinner together, which was fine with me. I asked if it would be alright if I had Mike or Crissty (2 of my really good friends) over to watch a couple movies or something while they were out, they were planning on being gone a few hours and it was a friday night. He told me it wasn't such a good idea because if they decided to come back early or something that she would probably have some comment about one or the other and wouldn't hesitate to speak her mind, because Mike and Crissty are both "different then her." So in order to make him feel better I forfeited being able to have time with my friends just because they are different then his mom. . . .

The other thing, the latest thing, the thing that has my heart reeling and has me asking a million questions is the latest thing that came out of his mouth, I would have never expected what he said in a million years. We were on the phone lastnight talking about adoption and I just offhandedly said something about how I thought it would still be really great if we could adopt internationally. He flat out said, "No, don't plan on that, cause that usually means a different color then we are." I had to fight so hard not to let the lump in my throat overcome my eyes with tears cause my heart was already crying the instant he spoke the words. I then asked him since when that mattered to him. He said, "because most of my family is racist and my mom wouldn't approve." I was like yeah but you aren't. He just said that he only wanted to adopt within the states preferably a white baby, after all these years he was just as enthused as I was about international adoption, for him to say that floored me. It's about L O V E....NOT about skin tones and different cultures and all the other things. It's about LOVE. I asked him how anyone could look at a little child's face (no matter the color) and into their eyes, see their innocence and their spirit and not have ANY feelings whatsoever in their heart? How can people just switch their heart off like that? I have seen and heard his mom do it. Since when does his mom have any say so in our life together?? She never calls or writes and then gets upset when I am with him when she comes to visit (twice in 5 years) because in her eyes, I spend too much time with my own husband.... Now she is having major and significant influence over him in what we originally wanted as far as adoption, and he wants to be closer to his mom...yet its starting to make me think things over more and more and starting to tear us apart. He's not too fond anymore of the fact that my best friends are "different". This is suppose to be our decision, not his moms, not my parents, not our friends decision, but ours. Love knows no color or boundaries....

It makes me question so many different things and it is so difficult....my heart is hurting and my "little voice" is telling me things and I don't know what to really do or say. How can I not care and how can I keep my mouth shut and I refuse to close my heart or give up my feelings just to appease them.....and the minute one or any of them asks that of me, it's over. Harsh or not, it's how I feel. I feel like I keep slamming into brick walls.... ok I am in tears now....


*Love...one love...only love....love...no color, no boundaries, no strings attached....Love is the only thing that matters

love love love,
Karen

*Hugs* Karen, Love, Janet

Karen,

I agree that your circumstances are unfortunate. I couldn't help the feeling of sadness for your husband though... Back in the 40's and 50's my grandparents ran in a fairly elite circle; an African American circle which included the likes of Thurgood Marshall, James Baldwin, the Duke... These were folk who were not deterred by their differences with society, but propelled to do more... Naturally, my grandparents circle also extended into another (thanks for the analogy LadyWing) with Caucasian people who were equally as powerful.
In that this group felt they had no choice but to work against all that was wrong in those times, whether it be civil rights for African Americans or for women, they were still surpisingly compassionate towards their friends who'd chosen to "pass." These were folk, and many of them, who elected to forfeit what was true to them in hopes of attaining some normalcy in their life.

There've been a number of studies on these people and they all seem tto support the arguement that this may have been more harmful than the other...removing a sense of self...a sense of pride in the eye of opression.

To bring it home, it seems as though your husband has decided that its not worth the fight. While it may be unfortunate, it is certainly not a black and white siuation with a black and white solution...so to speak. You married this man. Change is inevitable, yet often slow. My .02 is to accept his unwillingness to consider a child of another color as fear...fear of what others will say as LadyWingz also said. Can he be blamed for that? Give hime some room and you might just be surprised...I imagine your display of faith and trust will be rewarded.

On the other hand, not wanting to adopt a chile who is not of the same color or culture as you does not make you racist in the least bit. There is a huge responsibility which comes with such a decision that some, if not most, are not prepared to handle. There's nothing worse than seeing a white woman walking down the street with her beautiful child of African decent sporting a head full of naps and kinks that..... that just has no reason being so... Sorry, one of my pet peaves...


I wish you the best.

quote:

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Originally posted by Michael:
....they were still surpisingly compassionate towards their friends who'd chosen to "pass." These were folk, and many of them, who elected to forfeit what was true to them in hopes of attaining some normalcy in their life.

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It is funny you would mention that, I watch on cable last night "The Human Stain". My mother and aunt when talking about "olden days" mention how some of my aunts and cousin would try to "pass" and didn't understand why my grandmother and aunt didn't try to.
When I was a freshman in High School, I went to school in the Bronx (that about a hour train ride for me). It was so racially divided it was ridiculous. In order for me to "survive" (not getting beat up) in that school I would "pass". If someone ask my race, I would say "what do you think" and what ever answer given, I would lead them to believe it. So I was everything from Puerto Rican to being from Panama. I ended up transferring from the school because I wasn't true to myself. That was the message my grandmother and aunt taught me "Be true to oneself".

That is such a good movie...

Michael,

All I can say is thank you, thank you, thank you!! You have absolutely NOTHING to apologize for. You have opened my eyes wider....like we have all said or thought at some point, "It is great to see things through a different set of eyes because I already know what my own see."

You have opened up not only my eyes wider, but my heart as well in a few things that you said, and after reading through LadyWingZ posts a second time, I am getting to understand where the fear aspect comes into all of this, and you are right also in the fact that no, he can't be blamed for that and today, this minute, I no longer feel that hostility towards him because all of you are helping me to see certain things differently, not to mention making me think about things that honestly never entered my mind before. I appreciate it so very much, more than I can say. We are all learning from each other and I hope I have contributed at least a few positive things to this thread Michael, or said soemthing that clicked with someone or helped them in some way, because so many people here have already helped me see things positively that 24 hours ago I didn't see them that way.

Every single one of you has opened my heart and my eyes and mind up a bit more on certain things, and for that I am forever greatful...I just want to say thank you again and I really do appreciate it very much! *HUGS*

And Michael?? No worries about the white woman walking down the street with her beautiful child of African decent sporting a head full of naps and kinks comment. I totally see where you are coming from and after thinking about it, I tend to agree with you! Thank you again for being honest with me and allowing me to see where you are coming from. Today because of all of you, I have a different view, attitude and outlook on not only our adoption process, but also our marriage as well.... Thank you so very very much! Thank you all for being so nice to me and being there for me and telling me what I need to hear.....much love to all of you!!

Love, Hugs, and Peace,
~Karen

quote:

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Originally posted by fast changes:
Went to observe some Tibetan Monks construct a Mandala this past Sunday, and was purchasing some incense when I caught this one Monk smiling at me; I asked him well which one do you like best (there were several kinds of incense to purchase).

He laughed and said I like them all. I asked again oh you don't have a favorite, he said no not really I use them all well.

I understood his answer.
Can apply to many many concepts.

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Fast, did you watch them sweep up the sand? They create this beautiful thing and then let it go.

I am amazed with eveyone's stories. You all have so much courage and strength to be able to handle all of the adverse opinions about your relationships. I have a very hard time dealing with people that don't like me. I have a hard time dealing with people period and love being alone. Cats I can do. Relationships not very well. I applaud you all. I've learned a lot reading this thread. Thank you for teaching me.
Love you,
Allyson

Allyson, You are one of the people I enjoy talking to in chat. I enjoy reading your posts, and you are a shining light. Even though I enjoy being alone too, someimes, it is nice to have friends Much love to you, Janet

"Fast, did you watch them sweep up the sand? They create this beautiful thing and then let it go."

I did about 2 years ago. But the sweeping this year is taking place this Saturday.

For those who may not be familiar, it takes Tibetan Monks about 2 weeks to create a Mandala(at least up in my neck of the woods).

A Mandala are tiny grains of colored sand laid out by hand in beautiful geometric shapes. They work on it every day for hours, hours and hours.

Then on the last day they have a special ceremony and sweep everything away. Then I believe they move on to another City and start the same process all over again.

Speaking in terms of culture, theirs is an interesting and extremely peaceful one.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: fast changes,

Sounds good to me Fast...I am all for peaceful Love, Janet

They created a sand mandala here a couple of years ago. They filled tiny vials full of the sand and gave them to everyone present and then took the remainder in a jar and walked to the nearest water in the park and poured it out as a blessing for the area. I still have my vial of sand on my altar.

Janet, I love my friends and I guess I do have relationships. Here included! I just have a tendancy to fall in love with beautiful gay men which presents a problem! Or gorgeous entertainers that aren't available!

Hi Allyson, My mom told me something tonight that I did'nt know about. She lived with my sister for a time, and she worked in a photo lab. She had contact with people at work, but when she would go home at night my sister would go to bed early, and my mom did'nt have any friends there. She would cry at night. We all need friends. Tonight I realized how much I loved my mom, and I wrote this for her:

quote:

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As I walked into the silver reflections of my soul
I felt your presence near
guiding me all those years
though I never really opened my mind before
to really see how much you meant to me
I do know now, as the twilight brings down the curtain of your life
I can feel the lonely tears you have shed at night
so much heartache left unsaid
but you are here now
and we have moments to share
and I am grateful I have the chance
to become your friend, my mother dear

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Love to you Allyson, Janet

That is lovely, Janet. I live with my mom. We are very different but I adore her. It's good that you have a chance to be with yours now. Parents can be an interesting relationship. It's the first one you ever have and stays with you forever. I cleared up a lot of things with my dad when he went into spirit. He is always with me. I work in a field (metaphysics)where that is very common. I forget sometimes that most people don't feel that way or aren't aware of the love that surrounds them. There's a new show on TV called Medium. On an episode last night Allison (nice name) and her daughter helped a little boy go to the light and I thought wow, it's in primetime now. So I take back what I said. I have a lot of relationships. Some in spirit, some here now. I tend to really relate to singers though, even if I have not met them. I can feel them through their music. There's an amazing world out there and it's not always physical.

Twilight Zone theme...

Love back to you,
Allyson

quote:

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Originally posted by Allyson:
That is lovely, Janet. I live with my mom. We are very different but I adore her. It's good that you have a chance to be with yours now. Parents can be an interesting relationship. It's the first one you ever have and stays with you forever. I cleared up a lot of things with my dad when he went into spirit. He is always with me. I work in a field (metaphysics)where that is very common. I forget sometimes that most people don't feel that way or aren't aware of the love that surrounds them. There's a new show on TV called Medium. On an episode last night Allison (nice name) and her daughter helped a little boy go to the light and I thought wow, it's in primetime now. So I take back what I said. I have a lot of relationships. Some in spirit, some here now. I tend to really relate to singers though, even if I have not met them. I can feel them through their music. There's an amazing world out there and it's not always physical.

Twilight Zone theme...

Love back to you,
Allyson

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I understand perfectly Love, Janet

Getting back to the multi-cultural relationships theme. I tend to relate to people on a spiritual rather than a cultural level. So I may not understand the problems associated with coming from a cultural stand point. A woman cut in front of the line at the post office yesterday. The lady said "next" and this woman just walked up from the back of the line. The man next to me said "it's her heritage". I don't know what culture she was from but it was interesting watching people's reactions. A lot of times culture is used as an excuse for rude behavior. Common courtesy should be mandatory!